Creative Crossroads
Welcome to Creative Crossroads, where creators share their stories and processes. Each episode features conversations with artists, designers, and makers about their work, inspiration, and creative journey.
Join us to explore how ideas come to life and learn from creators who are shaping their fields. Creative Crossroads: Where makers meet, and ideas grow.
Creative Crossroads
Mel Beach: Creativity as Problem Solving
In this episode of Creative Crossroads, Ellyn and Catherine sit down with award-winning fiber and mixed media artist Mel Beach. Mel shares insights into her creative journey, which began in her childhood without cable TV and involvement in activities like Girl Scouts and 4-H. This early exposure led Mel to a lifelong passion for crafting and problem-solving, particularly through fiber arts. She discusses her innovative approach of using dice to inspire her 100-day project. Mel delves into how she balances structure with spontaneity in her work, often finding inspiration in the world around her. She also talks about her unique method of reusing materials, such as upcycling quilt sandwiches into quilted hearts, for the 'I Found a Quilted Heart' project.
Additionally, Mel highlights the importance of community in her creative process, appreciating both learning with other artists and undertaking solo adventures.
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Thanks for joining us at Creative Crossroads! Keep creating and we'll see you again soon!
Welcome back to Creative Crossroads. We've been talking to some really interesting artists in different mediums and finding out about their process and today we'd like to introduce you to Mel Beach. Mel Beach is an award winning fiber and mixed media artist who loves to create through play every day. Mel thrives on stretching her creativity through her completion of 100 plus quilt challenges at the local and international levels, in addition to completing 100 day projects, seven of them since 2020, and I want to talk more about that. Each one is inspired by daily dice rolling. Mel offers a variety of fun and inspiring online lectures, workshops, and content to inspire fellow artists to create with confidence and joy. She's passionate about teaching with a focus on machine quilting, modern improvisational design, and surface design. Welcome, Mel. We're glad you're here. Thank you, Ellen.
Mel Beach:Thank you, Catherine.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:You bet. Well, let's dive in. I have been watching and following along on Line for quite a long time and I've been fascinated by a lot of your process and the things you do So I'm excited to share your ideas with everyone else and to learn more myself. So Maybe you can talk about how you got started as a creative Was that something that was always part of your life as a child or something that came later?
Mel Beach:I think as a child, my family voted to disconnect cable TV. So as a result, my brothers and I, we were very active in scouts, girl scouts for me. We were very active in 4 H. I did lots of crafts and hobbies. As a result, participating in a program called Odyssey of the Mind, which is all about creative problem solving. And so again, I think those childhood influences set me up for that creative explorations as an adult.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:Do you think you create in much the same way? Is your process similar to when you were a child?
Mel Beach:I think it's, um, again, as a child, it was all through play. So that stays with me to this day, as you can see. I think I'm a little bit more structured and disciplined and rather than just kind of move around, like, that's the great thing about scouts and 4 H is you get to try a whole bunch. Of different projects, techniques, crafts, um, and so now I think I'm getting a little bit more focused on fiber arts, um, with little side trips over to mixed media from time to time.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:That sounds very familiar. That's kind of what happens over here too. I am intrigued by your dice rolling and how that came about and how that all works. Can you tell us more about that?
Mel Beach:Absolutely. It started during the start of the pandemic. I've always been intrigued by 100 day projects, but because of the traveling teaching, um, my schedule wasn't really conducive to doing anything for 100 days in a row. Anything that would be really interesting, because I'd have to schlep a sewing machine or other heavy equipment, and it just didn't seem very practical. So when the pandemic presented itself, and, I know it's a very stressful time for so many people around the world. But for me, I kind of saw it as, um, I chose to see it as a gift of time, time in my studio. Uh, I often joke that I caused the pandemic because my 2020 news resolution was more time in the studio because I was traveling and teaching so much. So I did not realize how much studio time I would get as a result. And not only a gift of time, but I was a Um, determined to use that time wisely and emerge, hopefully a stronger artist. And so I created my first game plan using dice and focus. I rolled three dice every day. Um, one determined, uh, what color scheme I was going to work with. Cause I certainly have my comfort zone of what colors I go to over and over. I buy over and over. And there are all these amazing color schemes that are out there that could offer new possibilities. One dice corresponded to an element of art. Like, um, I'm trying to think of them all. Now, of course, color, value, things like that. And then the third dice I rolled corresponded to a principle of design, balance, contrast, etc. And so every night I'd go into my studio, roll those three dice to get my assignment, if you will. And then I would raid my collection of fused scraps, fabric scraps left over from other classes, workshops, projects, etc. And I was creating just a seven by seven inch composition, nothing fancy, no stitching, but it had to incorporate that color scheme, that element of art, and that design principle. And I can say the first week or two, I had some books on the different elements of art. I kind of look it up. I'd have my color wheel. I'd have to refer to my color wheel. But after practicing after about a week or two, I no longer needed to look at the book, no longer needed to use my color wheel. And I was really stretching and growing. And after a hundred days of doing that, I now have a hundred compositions that I often refer back to as kind of inspiration for other projects I could work on and kind of riff off of it. I love the process. I found it very therapeutic, you know, every night going to my studio processing what the heck happened that day and creating and just kind of tuning out the world for about 20, 30, sometimes 60 minutes, depending on how long I had. So I took four days off after I finished that project, and I dived right into another hundred day project. I haven't looked back since.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:That's awesome. So what, what becomes of those elements that you create? Are they all in a box? Are they?
Mel Beach:They are in a box. I keep thinking about, do I want to turn into a quilt? Do I want to turn into like prayer flags? Um, I, I teach it now as part of my Design by Dice class. And so you can see on my design wall, I know your listeners won't be able to see that, but every time I teach the class, I make more blocks. And so I keep doing it and adding to my collection. So this quilt is going to be huge by the time I'm, if and ever, done with it. Um, but I often incorporate those designs into various projects, lectures, so, um, and really the learning stays with me forever, so that's the more important thing, I think.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:So they kind of serve as inspiration?
Mel Beach:Yes.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:And I've, I've noticed, looking at your work, like, lots of times, a certain object will appear or something. I think you do a lot of stamp carving and whatnot. Where else do you find inspiration for those things?
Mel Beach:Oh, well, that was my second hundred day project was I called it a hundred days of dice doodles. And so that was a July through August of 2020. So here in California. The world was still shut down. So that meant galleries, quilt shows, museums, places I often go to soak up and recharge on inspiration. They were all inaccessible to the public. So I was sheltering place. I had a limited bubble to explore. And, um, that project kind of every day I would roll the dice the night before, and that's what I was looking for inspiration. And so I was, Looking for inspiration in the form of a photograph, music, world news, uh, text, uh, something, um, history, you know, like a, a memory or past event, and then artist's choice, which was looking for the joy during, again, in some stressful times around the world. And every day I would kind of create a little, uh, four inch stitched composition in a whole cloth quilt. And that projects by walking around the same route on my walks doing, you know, looking around my backyard. I suddenly saw all new. Interesting textures, designs, color combinations, patterns. And so I started really kind of examining my, my world and oftentimes it's the mundane stuff, you know, I'll be looking at trash cans or plumbing on the side of the building and finding all kinds of great lines or textures. And so truly inspiration is all around. I just have to train my eye to open up and see it.
Catherine Dutton:It sounds like you definitely find inspiration in the world around you. Yeah. But what do you do when you have that moment where you are uninspired and you don't feel like anything is coming to you?
Mel Beach:Yes, there are definitely times Uh doing several hundred day projects, you know in a year I I have lost my sojo at times because it takes up so much Uh, you know, you're kind of going going keeping up with that pace and when it's over there's a little bit of you know Sadness mourning over it's been And so I call it, I lost my sojo. And so, um, when that happens, I, I sit with it for a while. I don't panic, maybe a little panic. I go, Oh my gosh, what am I going to do? Um, but somewhere. Years ago, somebody said, well, if you've lost your mojo, your sojo creativity, the best way to get it back is to clean your studio. And that's what I often do. I kind of go through every nook and cranny and I look at everything and kind of re examine, is this something I'm still passionate about? Is this time to let it go to another artist or creative by donating it, giving it away? And, um, in 2022, that's what I did. And I came across a stack of quilt sandwiches that I'd used for teaching free motion quilting. And there was a whole bunch of them. There was probably about 20 or so of quilt sandwiches, all about that quarter. I was like, I hate to throw them away because they had great texture, great patterns. And I got the idea to, um, upcycle them into little quilted hearts for the project called, I found a quilted heart project. It's something I discovered right before the pandemic where quilters were making hearts and leaving them out in the world as kind of found art. And, uh, you know, it was right at the start of the pandemic, so I didn't feel quite good about leaving hearts out when people are so unknowing about what was causing COVID. So this was a chance to play. I created 75 hearts in, uh, 30 days of November. And because I just kind of clean up my studio, I got reacquainted with all kinds of different. Fabrics, my swatches, um, different embellishments. And so I made categories and you can see where this is probably going. There was five categories and I rolled a dice, determined which five categories I would do. The sixth category was artist's choice. So I could pick anything that either wasn't in those categories or just what made me happy that day. And it was really fun. And I got my Sojo back and had a chance to play with stuff I already owned. I already had, I wasn't buying more. Um, and so that was really a meditative way of bringing joy, not just to my day, but also sending them out into the world for other people to find and keep. So were you able to
Ellyn Zinsmeister:put them out there in the world later?
Mel Beach:Uh, actually this was during 2021. So yes, I sent about 50 of them out into the world. If you go to the I Found a Quilted Heart Project, they have a list of places that you can sew a heart, they call it. And places like public places like parks, libraries, um, outside of hospitals. Those are great places to leave them because they are often found by people that most need them. Um, I follow them on Facebook and Instagram and, uh, people share their stories of finding these hearts. And they're often like, on the most craptastic day of their life, they get, lose a loved one, um, they get diagnosed with cancer, and they come out of the hospital, and they find one of these quilted hearts, and it just lets them know that there's love, there's people out there supporting them, and it's a really beautiful story. So yeah, at least 50 of those 75 are out in the world, um, hopefully brightening some other people's days. That's
Ellyn Zinsmeister:such a neat project. we can kind of see your studio behind you, but maybe you can, nobody else can see. So maybe you can describe a little bit the space that you work in and how it works for you.
Mel Beach:Yeah, my studio is certainly evolved. Uh, as I have, when I first started quilting, it was like a little corner in a living room, um, in a small like little section of a closet. And I'm like a goldfish. I grow to my size. And so currently I've taken over the front formal living room. Uh, we don't entertain all that often that we need a formal living room. So that's my creative space. Um, And, you know, I have lots of, I would say it's a nod to Ikea. A lot of the, um, organizational, uh, containers, bins, shelving is all Ikea, so I find it's really efficient and it's accessible. We have one not too far from where I live now. Um, but it evolves. And so, as I do different projects, different, Mixed media types, um, that the studio is always evolving to mix, you know, have the space for the fly. So when I was doing those hundred day projects, that stuff got realty. Um, and then it kind of shifts throughout the time. So, um, it tends to be fairly organized. I would say I tend to thrive within an organized this way when inspiration strikes, I'm not doing a scavenger hunt, finding that fabric or finding that tool or whatever it is that I need. I can just dive in. That said, there are times that it gets a little chaotic in here, especially when I'm in the midst of that creative process. Um, my rule is basically when I run out of horizontal surfaces or I spend more time moving stuff because I can't create, that's when it's time to stop and do a little tidy up, uh, just to get things back to, um, under control.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:That makes sense.
Mel Beach:Yeah.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:Do you tend to work on one project at a time? Like, Or do you often have multiple projects going?
Mel Beach:I think right now I have tend to have one big project that it's kind of keeping me, it's a solo independent thing. Um, but I do take a lot of classes and mixed media. So I do these little side trips, uh, here and there, uh, as classes. And so I play, uh, I'll share the, the inspiration or the finished project, but I'm usually kind of grounded on whatever that hundred day project or that fiber art series that I'm working on.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:Does collaboration play any role in your creative process? Do you often create with other artists or
Mel Beach:yeah, um, I would say I don't necessarily create with other artists But I learn with other artists and I find that's a really safe place to do it Um, I have one friend, uh, we take similar mixed media classes And so we try to carve out time each week to do what we call a play date Um, and it's a chance to kind of get together. We have a game plan going into okay We're going to try this thing that we learned in whatever class it was Let's play and do some swatching and see what we can do with this certain paint or stencil or whatever it is. Um, and I find I really look forward to these play dates, um, because we can make lots of experiments. I kind of launch in over to see what she's doing over in her corner, uh, that we're copying, but we get great energy and from each other. We have, uh, Both have failures and we can share that. So we don't have to both repeat those failures, but more importantly, we have a lot of aha moments, like, Ooh, look what I tried to overhear and that kind of fuels each other's creativity. So those have been invaluable to my creative process. Again, it's a safe place to kind of take risks, be vulnerable, try something new, that's not necessarily in my comfort zone. Um, and I really look forward to those, um, those weekly sessions.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:Catherine and I have very similar play dates. We, my calendar often says art with Catherine, hers says art with Ellen. We do very similar things. Um, what we've noticed between the two of us is Catherine is a, a great fodder collector. She has different bins of different kinds of fodder and whatnot. And she loves the process of making the fodder. Whereas I, I like to see things through to a finished product and, you know, I often put them into art journals or onto cards or different things. How is that for you? Do you have Is there a part of the process that really resonates with you or,
Mel Beach:I think, um, I am with Catherine on this. I love the making parts. I'm not so good about always incorporating the compositions or finished projects, and that's what I, I think I needed Ellen in my world, uh, because my partner, we both like to make those, uh, those parts and stuff like that. So we are trying to kind of get more into the, okay, what's next? We gotta start using this fodder that we've been creating. Um, and we are, we're getting there, but again, it's way easier for. Faster to make my, my making is far exceeding my using at this point. So I'm trying.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:How do you balance, I guess you've kind of already dove into this with the dice, but spontaneity versus structure. And yeah, I think that one is.
Mel Beach:I think I tend to go with the project fairly structured, having a game plan or something, some kind of theme that's going to kind of guide that process. However, I'm really open to that spontaneity of those new possibilities that emerge. Sometimes they emerge because of an oops moment and I'm like, Oh, I messed up. And in which case I pivot, I adapt, I make it work. Um, and there are times that just like, wow, things happen, and you see new possibilities. Sometimes I come into my studio and two fabrics just got left next to each other. I was like, Oh, those are really exciting. So I'm always open to new possibilities as the project. Evolves progresses, and go with it. So I don't say superstructure that it has to be this unless there's some restrictions. Sometimes there's a certain size limit, things like that. I'll try to work within those parameters, but I'm really kind of embrace new opportunities and see where they go.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:When you're working on a specific project, like for a competition or, a challenge, how do you know when your piece is finished?
Mel Beach:Ah, well, certainly if the deadline's approaching, that's the time to kind of That I, my process and say, okay, I better get it done. Um, and I, I'm constantly taking a lot of pictures of my process. Um, I tell people, you know, in my blog posts, the more pictures, the usually it means I'm struggling more of that piece. I'm trying to step back and kind of get that new perspective. So I take lots of pictures, see where the projects leading me, tell me what, what's working, what's successful and maybe what needs more, more interest, more layers, more something, whatever that may be. And, um, basically, when I'm happy with it, when I feel like I've put all that I can into that piece without being too overwhelming, I call it quits, I finish the binding, add that label, and that's when a piece is really finished for me.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:So what are you working on most recently?
Mel Beach:Um, currently, uh, October, we're just wrapping up October as we're recording today's podcast. Um, this is Print Inktober, and so, every day this month, folks around the world are printing and inking or block printing or doing something, to create daily. For me, I've been carving and block printing for 2 or 3 years now, so I have quite the collection of block prints that I have in my wheelhouse. And so I'm revisiting them. I am a flower child. I've always been, I grew up in the late 70s. And so I just love flowers, abstract flowers, unrealistic flowers, but also realistic one too. I don't, I've done a little bit of gardening. But I usually get my inspiration from other people's gardens who are much more of a green thumb than I am. Um, so I'm having fun. I'm, revisiting all these previously carved stamps that have floral elements of flower blooms, leaves. I have a few critters I might incorporate and I'm working with some fabric swatches from a place called fab bow. It's here in the San Francisco Bay area. And what this organization does, it's a nonprofit. It's a creative reuse center. Almost weekly, they go up to San Francisco and they rescue all the interior design swatches that they use. So fabric, wallpaper, flooring, all this good stuff that would otherwise end up in the dumpster, they are taking and bringing it down to FABMO and they make it available for either really cheap or free. And so I scored right before Print Inktober kicked off, they had a sale on silk fabrics. And I got I don't even know how much silk fabric for less than 20, I think it was. And they're just gorgeous, shot silks, all kinds of stuff. So I am stamping onto those fabric swatches, fusing them, trimming them up. And, um, after October's done, I will be incorporating them into some fabric floral arrangements next. So I'm really excited.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:Oh, that's interesting. We might have to make a road trip. That sounds great. Yeah.
Mel Beach:Yes, it's a great resource. There are a number of these creative reuse centers all over the country. If you look for them, some are really dedicated crafters, but this is a really treasure one.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:Seems like you, you are really tuned into your materials and reusing and, and using what you have rather than adding a lot of new things. Do you, do you fabric shop and art supply shop often? Or do you stick with
Mel Beach:what you have? Um, I think it's fun to buy fabric, um, but I've been making my own fabric, for a while. It was another 100 day project where I was doing surface design. So starting with solid fabrics and doing stamping, painting, all kinds of stuff. And quite honestly, I'm running out of time. Um, so I'm trying to be mindful of what I bring into my stash, um, so I'm not spending time just storing and perusing through it. As I'm getting into more of these fabmo fabrics, because they're just great textures, I'm finding that some of the commercial prints, of recycling and giving back to Fabmo and other organizations to share with other cook creatives. So, um, yes, I enjoy the shop and I love going to Fabmo. I go through every swatch of wallpaper, all the fabrics, um, but I am trying to be mindful of what can I recently, not just, you know, keep on hand, but actually use in my lifetime.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:That makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. Was there one moment A pivotal moment in your life that that sent you on more of a creative journey? Did you have other focuses in your life that you turned from for to creativity or were you always an artist?
Mel Beach:I think i've always been drawn to the arts as an outlet as a kind of um, Having a creative voice and kind of escape from the real world, I guess, if you will. Years ago, I moved from New York to California, and that's when I joined a quilt guild. I got really involved in the fiber art community. California, especially northern California, has got so many quilt guilds. We've got a museum. We've got all these shops and everything else. And so I would say that's a big part of my trajectory of kind of just moving to a really cool quilts and rich community that had access to lots of resources, classes and teachers that were incredible. Um, and then fast forward, I'd say the next big. Transformation was when I left working in an animal shelter field. I did that for a number of years doing animal rescue and training. And as you can imagine, that can be a high stress, high emotion position. And so I took a break. And around that time, that's when I got invited by a Las Vegas guild to do a lecture for them. And I also got asked by my guild to do a teaching demo and both are really positive experiences. And so I was like, well, maybe I turn into a teacher and do this more full time as I'm kind of in between jobs and I haven't looked back since then, and as a result, I've gotten way more serious about my fiber art, my practice, um, and I'm really loving it.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:That's really great. I haven't. This isn't wasn't on our list of questions. I'm gonna throw a ringer at you. But how would you define creativity as you've experienced it?
Mel Beach:I always see it as problem solving. So when you see opportunities or problems out in the world, for me, creativity is how you respond to that problem. And it's not saying they're all bad problems that could be, you know, those opportunities like an art call or just something in your voice that you want to create and using your own your own approach to kind of navigate you through that. But That's interesting.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:That's really great. Do you have, anything that you've been reading lately or podcasts you listen to, or specific artists that you follow that you could share with our listeners that they might find inspiring as well?
Mel Beach:Yeah, as I mentioned, I love taking classes. I'm kind of a class since junkie, uh, but I'm finding I'm taking more classes in the mixed media world. I find it's outside of my comfort zone. It's exposing me to all different mediums and approaches and kind of making me a little bit more messy. I would say I tend to be very structured, disciplined in my fiber art and very neat. Um, and this is kind of, you know, some of those mediums you can't necessarily control and kind of embracing those blobs of paint and things like that. So I'm doing more and more with that. And there's a few outlets and artists I find that are really, um, I like their style. I like their approach. It's tends to be a lot of play. One is, Jennifer Wilkin Pennick. She's out of the DC uh, area, and she offers, a free program through the Georgetown Humanities Program on Mondays and Wednesdays. They're free, they're one hour kind of a creative prompt, and you use whatever materials you have on hand. Some of us have lots of materials. Some people are in the office setting, it's their lunch break. And so they're playing with post it notes, highlighters, and pens, and that's totally fine. Um, and a lot of what she teaches, it's just like a jumping off point. It's like, Oh, and it's also an hour of kind of midweek time for me of just play. Um, I do some of her other classes as well. And I really, um, I like her philosophy, her approach and, and how she gets inspiration. So she's a big one. Uh, Ellen, I know you're involved with fodder school as well. Um, I love that format that Wendy Solganic, AKA Willa Wanders has created where she invites 11 or 12 teachers, um, to teach a technique or actually it's getting more and more techniques on the first of the month. And then on the 15th, midway through the month, a project to use that fodder, that those techniques. And I love that format. And again, um, Adding more mediums, other techniques to my wheelhouse. I enjoy that as well. I'm trying to think, I feel like I'm missing somebody else. Um, and then I've been working with a great, a coach, uh, a coach over the past, gosh, several years, uh, coach Tammy Bennett. She's, uh, the show up society. And she's been offering a group coaching program. And, you know, as artists, we tend to work on our own. We have many hats to wear, um, some hats we love to wear, some hats we kind of would rather pass off and not have to do. And, um, working with her coaching style has really kind of helped me that mindset shift to keep putting my work out there, take those risks, try something new. Uh, so I'd say those three folks are probably the most influential on my current creative practice.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:And those are all online classes and things, so they're available to people everywhere.
Mel Beach:Exactly, yeah. Many of them are recorded, uh, so you can watch at your own time. I would say Jennifer tends to be more live, uh, in the moment, uh, when you schedule, but I get so much out of all three of them as my schedule allows. That's really great. Was
Ellyn Zinsmeister:there anything else that you wanted to share that we didn't touch on?
Mel Beach:So yeah, you asked about kind of unconventional materials or techniques. And so certainly we talked a little bit about the dice and kind of rolling for assignments. Uh, but one of the outlets I've been doing for a number of years is called project quilting. Um, there are one week challenges that happen January through March. Uh, uh, Kim Lopacek, she is the Brain's behind, uh, person and dreams blog post. And so she's a huge fan of project runway. And so, uh, if you've ever watched that program, I love it, um, about fashion design on the fly, basically. And so, um, she created project quilting kind of inspired by that TV show where we have a prompt issued on Sunday morning and we have one week to start and finish a quilt. So it's a little bit more than the two days that most of the designers get. And, um, they're fast and they're furious. And they really stretched me out of my comfort zone to explore different themes, different ideas. Um, and they often turn into series, but in Project Runway, my favorite episode each season is the unconventional materials challenge. Where they take the fashion designers to like a hardware store or a candy store, things like that. And they have to get all the materials to make a dress or ensemble or something in two days. And I love the pieces that come out, especially folks that embrace the materials and not cheat and use fabric like items. And so one season of project quilting, I challenged myself to use all unconventional materials in my art quilts. And so, uh, the first, uh, Uh, challenge I used, um, I recycled some, uh, laptop computers that were going to go for e recycling anyway. We took them apart and I incorporated the different circuits and, uh, fans into my quilt to create kind of the San Jose area. I used, uh, UNO cards. inspired by the color yellow. So there's a few different things that I've incorporated into my fiber art, uh, garbage out of a recycling bin to raise awareness about plastic pollution. So, um, it's kind of a fun engineering project to kind of not make it look like garbage, but also how do you attach these into your quilt, not break and damage your sewing machine. So I enjoy those challenges.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:That's really fun. That gives you things to think about, doesn't it?
Mel Beach:Yes.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:Hmm. Hmm. Yes. I need to try some of that.
Mel Beach:I've become a hoarder. I think between mixed media and some of that stuff, I just now have piles of like just stuff that I could incorporate to quilt future days, but.
Ellyn Zinsmeister:And maybe that'll happen. And maybe it won't. And that's okay too. Yep. That's okay too. Well, we're really glad that you had time to chat with us and to talk about some of these things. I've been watching your process for a long time and learned a lot from you and I'm glad other people are going to benefit from that too. So thank you for coming and for making the time spending time with us.
Mel Beach:Thank you. It's been a pleasure chatting with you both. Uh, I enjoyed this topic and I'm looking forward to listening to more of your episodes with other artists that you're and other creatives that you're interviewing.
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